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Qualcomm Snapdragon MSM8960 analysis - 4th generation processor already?


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#1 Admin

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 09:14 AM

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Most of you probably won't recall the processor named MSM8960 which was announced back in Feb 2009 by Qualcomm.

This is what Qualcomm claimed about MSM8960:

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The Mobile Station Modem (MSM) MSM8960 chipset is the industry's only complete integrated solution that supports all of the world's leading mobile broadband standards. The chipset is compatible with Smartphone platforms based on Qualcomm's other MSM8x60 chipsets, delivering significant economies of scale to device manufacturers who are designing cutting-edge devices based on those solutions. The MSM8960 is scheduled to sample in mid-2010.

An executive from Qualcomm also said:

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Multi-mode 3G /LTE chipsets will be crucial to smooth deployments of LTE by operators who are looking to complement their existing 3G networks, and the MSM8960 delivers maximum flexibility by supporting EV-DO Rev. B and HSPA+ in addition to LTE. The MSM8960 raises the bar for LTE solutions by not only offering support for all leading mobile broadband standards, but also integrating exceptional multimedia performance. This allows device manufacturers to leverage their existing HSPA+ device designs for significant economies of scale.


So what is this MSM8960?

..........
The MSM8960 features radio frequency, software and pin-compatibility with the MSM8260 and MSM8660 chipsets. (read this article if you want to know more about MSM8x60 processors). Why is this important? This basically means, if you, as a manufacturer, already produces a phone that uses MSM8x60 processor, it is very cheap for them to switch over. As mentioned in the previous article about MSM8x60, this dual-core processor based phones are expected to be out to the public sometime during Q1 of 2011, featuring the 3rd generation GPU called Adreno 220. So what makes MSM8960 more powerful than already impressive looking MSM8x60? Remember, phones based on MSM8x60 may come to us as early as Q1 of 2011.

Lets compare the two here:

MSM8x60: (where x equals 2 or 6)

  • uses two Cortex A8 based processor cores
  • includes Adreno 205 GPU
  • 45nm die
  • clocked at 1.2GHz

MSM8960:

  • to be built on the 28nm process!
  • uses two Cortex A9 based processor cores (which also means it will implement out-of-order design)
  • 75% less power consumption!

The following paragraph is straight out of my Samsung Orion article which explains what it means to have out-of-order design:

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Until about early 90's, all CPUs were in-order processors. The key concept of out-of-order processing is to allow processor to avoid "stalls" that could occur when data needed to perform an operation is not available. Instead of stalling, the processor fills in these slots with other instructions that CAN be executed. Although sounds simple in plain English, this is very complex to implement on silicons.

Qualcomm claims 5x the performance improvement over the original Snapdragon processor - QSD8250 featured in Nexus One and every Windows Phone 7 out there. So how did they derive this number?

At the same clock speed (meaning at 1GHz):

  • dual core means 2x
  • out of order execution design brings in another 25%

The above combined only gives us 2.5x. MSM8960 will probably feature a larger cache so that will help and so would higher clock speed. If they go for 1.5GHz, Qualcomm's claim just might be feasible.

What about MSM8x60 in comparison to QSD8250?

  • dual core also means 2x
  • 1.2GHz means another 20% gain

So that makes MSM8x60 about 2.4x more powerful than the original QSD8250. Will MSM8960 really be twice as powerful as Qualcomm's first dual-core processor, MSM8x60? That would be impressive if they can pull this off!

And what about that 75% less power consumption claim? I find this hard to believe. 28mm die will definitely help out tremendously. But I doubt it will be enough to reduce the power consumption to 1/4 of what it used to be. Perhaps they are measuring it based on the amount of work the processor is doing?


What about the GPU?

Qualcomm did not mention which GPU core is used by MSM8960. But they are claiming 4x the performance improvement, probably over Adreno 200 featured in QSD8250.

Currently we have the following possibilities:

  • Adreno 205 - this is the 2nd generation GPU, first used by HTC G2 as a part of MSM7230 SoC. (Read more about Adreno 205 in this article). According to Qualcomm's specification page, Adreno 205 is about 2x the performance of Adreno 200.
  • Adreno 220 - this is the 3rd generation GPU, to be first used by MSM8x60 processor mentioned earlier. According to Qualcomm's specification page, Adreno 220 is once again, about 2x the performance of Adreno 205. Can you guess which GPU MSM8960 may end up using? Bingo!


When can we expect smartphones to use this processor?

Qualcomm says they will sample MSM8960 starting in 2011 which means you should not expect any smartphones based on this processor until 2012.


What about that other processor Qualcomm has on their line up?

Which one? You mean QSD8672? If you got this right, you have a great memory!

Have a look at what QSD8672 was supposed to feature:

  • dual-core 1.5GHz
  • Cortex A9 based design
  • Adreno 220 GPU

Does this sound familiar? Yes it does - it sounds exactly like MSM8960! What's more interesting is that Qualcomm no longer lists this processor on their Snapdragon family specification sheet! They must have renamed or slightly re-packaged QSD8672 into MSM8960. Phones based on QSD8672 was supposed to be out by Q4 of 2011, so the estimation of 2012 for MSM8960 sounds about right.


Summary

Qualcomm always had this processor already on their future line up, called QSD8972 so this is really a 3rd generation processor. The "new" MSM8960 should be a 1.5GHz, dual-core Cortex A9 based processor, featuring Adreno 220 GPU. Phone manufacturers will probably try very hard to get phones based on this processor into the market before the Christmas of 2011.


Competitors

Looks like Samsung Orion with equivalent design may hit the market before MSM8960. OMAP 4 based phones will probably hit earlier as well, but with a less powerful GPU (PowreSGX540, yes the same one used by Samsung's Hummingbird!). Cortex A9 based NVIDIA Tegra 2 will be out way before this processor (Q4 2010/Q1 2011) but likely to feature a less powerful GPU. By the time MSM8960 is ready, NVIDIA may have Tegra 3 ready (they have already publicized this). I expect Samsung's Orion and MSM8960 to fight for the best performing processor title during Q4 2011/Q1 2012, with NVIDIA Tegra 3 filling the roll as the dark horse.
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#2 panero

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:53 PM

Nice little article, thanks!

#3 weizz

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:28 PM

how about adreno 3xx?

which generation of snapdragon using it?
engadget said gpu power is similiar with xbox 360 or ps3.. is that true??

#4 Admin

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 01:16 AM

View Postweizz, on 18 November 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:

how about adreno 3xx?

which generation of snapdragon using it?
engadget said gpu power is similiar with xbox 360 or ps3.. is that true??

Hi there,

Qualcomm announced Adreno 3xx independently from any particular processors. Currently, Qualcomm has not announced any processors that use the Adreno 3xx yet. It will take few years for Qualcomm to be able to produce processors that use this GPU.

Is it possible for a smartphone GPU to outperform today's high end consoles? Absolutely. These GPUs are already few years old. In few years, they will be 5-6 years old. This is a loooong time for leading edge technology like smartphone processors to evolve. GPUs do scale very well, so as they come up with smaller manufacturing processes, they will be able to squeeze more components into the die. We have seen this kind of evolutions on the desktop video cards forever. It is now happening in smartphones.
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SmartphoneBenchmarks RESULT TABLE: smartphonebenchmarks.com




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